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Have you ever experienced anything worse than Openstack? [closed]

asked 2015-01-21 20:58:53 -0500

Morgan Ross Egging gravatar image

updated 2015-01-21 21:23:25 -0500

The quick install guide is 150 pages and doesn't work. What other software requires the person installing it to do so much work? Is there any other software in the whole world that requires so much work to install?

I have 15 years of full time admin experience, 9 years of VM experience, 5 years linux experience, and 4 years of AWS experience. I have over 100 fully documented attempts at installing Openstack. Devstack, Packstack, Mirantis Fuel, Ubuntu Cloud, .....

Most fail on first or second command due to extremely poor documentation without comments or discussion sections.

When I ask "why does packstack fail" Don't ask for the log. Its not me. Its Openstack. If you can find the solution in the log I'll bet a computer could have as well.

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Closed for the following reason too subjective and argumentative by larsks
close date 2015-02-13 11:22:13.260384

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For instance: Devstack is "not production ready" well why the hell not. make it production ready. Mirantis Fuel completely fails if there is a a DHCP server somewhere in the network. You know those super rare DHCP servers that you can't find on every network ever.

Morgan Ross Egging gravatar imageMorgan Ross Egging ( 2015-01-21 21:07:09 -0500 )edit

Packstack requires multiple docs to install, the official doc linking to a youtube video with no posted commands. It requires CLI and GUI and ANOTHER doc to get it working on your network, cuse who would want that?

Morgan Ross Egging gravatar imageMorgan Ross Egging ( 2015-01-21 21:08:51 -0500 )edit

Manually copy and paste mac address into a text file using CLI to get it to work? That seems like something a computer can do. You tell me about the network, you are f*ing plugged into it, I'm a human. What is the point of a web GUI if you have to use CLI? wordpress installs one click from GUI!

Morgan Ross Egging gravatar imageMorgan Ross Egging ( 2015-01-21 21:11:02 -0500 )edit
1

I agree that the installation is pretty hard. OpenStack isn't a final product that can be use with a Q&A and support. It evolves too fast, that's why the lack of documentations. According to your experience, I guess you know that :) Interesting threads, it will be.

GLaupre gravatar imageGLaupre ( 2015-01-21 21:11:44 -0500 )edit

my solution for the fast moving dev hurting documentation is to put a comments section at the bottom of every article. Have problem - google it - first link - FIRST COMMENT is the real code that actually works. everytime.

Morgan Ross Egging gravatar imageMorgan Ross Egging ( 2015-01-21 21:26:04 -0500 )edit

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answered 2015-01-21 22:02:42 -0500

crh gravatar image

OpenStack is very complex to install. It has improved over time, but there is still a lot to do. However, we are talking about an product with a very large number of moving parts here, it won't ever be as simple to install as Linux, for instance. Have you ever tried making sense of Tivoli? Oracle? Whole generations of consultants have earned their Porsches doing nothing than making Tivoli or Oracle palatable for your organization.

Now about Fuel: It's purpose is to install a very large number of bare metal nodes into a full OpenStack cluster. Currently there is no better way than DHCP to make bare-metal nodes available to a cloud deployment system. The competition, who does bare-metal installs, does it the same way. Of course, proper network preparation is key, this includes ensuring that no other DHCP servers are in the same L2 domain as the management network interfaces of the Fuel server and the prospective OpenStack cluster nodes. As this network does not have to be connected to anything and in fact should be separate from the public, private and other OpenStack networks, the easiest way to accomplish that is simply connect a designated interface on each host to a management switch to create an isolated management network and configure only those interfaces for DHCP.

Note: I work for Mirantis and have seen Fuel (Now: Mirantis OpenStack) grow from its very beginning, when it was a tool to save our deployment team some tedious work to one of the least complicated bare-metal deployment and lifecycle management systems for OpenStack.

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Thank you for your answer. I do understand the need for its own network. What bugged me is that the Fuel bootable installer does have a GUI for selecting either static or DHCP, but refuses to continue if it sees a DHCP. whats that menu for then? can't you just install it for now anyway?

Morgan Ross Egging gravatar imageMorgan Ross Egging ( 2015-01-22 00:14:04 -0500 )edit

As for the large number of moving parts: Computers have NO problem whatsoever dealing with a large number of moving parts. You know what does have trouble dealing with large numbers of moving parts, humans with text files and CLI's. Gimme drop down menus, gimme pictures.

Morgan Ross Egging gravatar imageMorgan Ross Egging ( 2015-01-22 00:19:25 -0500 )edit

And its so easy to get it right. You know right off the bat that everyone can run virtual machines to start, so hey, why not virtualize everything, import image, no cli no install. In reality everyone mostly wants the same thing from Openstack, the config need not be so manifold and fragile.

Morgan Ross Egging gravatar imageMorgan Ross Egging ( 2015-01-22 00:21:37 -0500 )edit

Will Mirantis sell Fuel on a Stick? preloaded Meego T01 (w/rj45) type device?

Morgan Ross Egging gravatar imageMorgan Ross Egging ( 2015-01-22 00:24:21 -0500 )edit

Ubuntu has a lot of moving parts, but after I put the disk in, I get Ubuntu. simple. If it is super complicated someone should make a computer program that simplifys it. We'll call it Fuel. Oops, now fuel is complicated, we are going to need a computer to help us install it.

Morgan Ross Egging gravatar imageMorgan Ross Egging ( 2015-01-22 00:42:53 -0500 )edit
3

answered 2015-01-21 22:28:37 -0500

If you want Openstack in production you need a vendor to do it for you. Plain and simple. There are many vendors that can help.

If you want to do it yourself then you will need to spend the time to learn it, fail, and do it again.

Openstack is not like your typical application. There are many components and lots of configs. There are also many different ways to deploy Openstack.

I can tell you though, once you understand it, it's a very powerful platform that can transform your whole org.

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My point is that since it has a GUI already, why not put the config in there? Use just enough CLI to get Horizon, then bam, done with CLI forever.

Morgan Ross Egging gravatar imageMorgan Ross Egging ( 2015-01-21 23:02:33 -0500 )edit
1

It would be nice. I agree. Many operators who have learned their way around the complexities have automates the installs using puppet, chef or Ansible. Those automations are available on the net if you want to try those.

sfcloudman gravatar imagesfcloudman ( 2015-01-22 00:04:03 -0500 )edit

so far I've found that adding another layer of complexity creates more problems. There are gigabytes of online forums of people trying to fix just puppet itself. If openstack needs puppet, it should have puppet. Packstack is puppet, and its batting 1 for 1000.

Morgan Ross Egging gravatar imageMorgan Ross Egging ( 2015-01-22 00:35:31 -0500 )edit

I don't want to become a Openstack dev, or expert, or professional. I want to build apps that run on clouds. It shouldn't be so hard. VMware is old. AWS is old. Linux is OLD. What is the problem. This is not new stuff.

Morgan Ross Egging gravatar imageMorgan Ross Egging ( 2015-01-22 00:37:40 -0500 )edit

You could try Mirantis OpenStack Express ( https://express.mirantis.com/ ). You can get a free developer account for a year that allows you to develop for OpenStack without having to deploy an OpenStack cloud yourself.

crh gravatar imagecrh ( 2015-01-25 01:24:29 -0500 )edit

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Asked: 2015-01-21 20:58:53 -0500

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Last updated: Jan 21 '15